What is Exactly the Ideal State of Existence?

What is the Ideal state of existence.Ayn wondered that it may never be achieved on this earth! You think she is right there? Is it simply the Laissez faire Capitalism or something more than that?

Well i am only 29 years old! But let me clarify a few things.
There are two types of human beings - the good and the evil.
But evil is not unconditional.And i suppose there is only one human nature - to enjoy life on this earth!

And capitalism is the only system compatible with human nature!
The world is not made by the highest man or ayn alone! It is made by
10 or 8 billion individuals whatever that maximum number of unique
individuals possible in the human race be.[And 2 % of that which is 200 or 160 million high level geniuses - the diamond sparkling eyes and rocket powered movements of theirs,extremely handsome,
beautiful,intelligent with god like figures - the ultimate creatures in the universe will make life seem as if it is in heaven!]

When the 10 or 8 billions arise by the year 2050 will the Government be able to feed them with their wrong ideas? Capitalism in the full meaning of its term
has never existed in the last ten thousand years of mankind's existence![With
the exception of Krishna's kingdom 5K years ago.]
We must have a govt. in place which protects the people's freedom,
property,decency etc. It must provide the army,law courts and police
for this and must tax the people in order to run these three systems.
It must not enter any other sphere because when it does it becomes
a Destroyer! Observe what happened in the last 10 thousand years.

Show me the idea which will work for 10 billion minus one and
i will show you what is wrong with that idea! It is only capitalism which
will work for all the 10 billions at the same time.capitalism is not about
rich people torturing poor people. It is feudalism which does this!
And socialism is not about poor people torturing rich people.It is about
penalizing intelligence - penalizing each and every man to the extent of
his intelligence.

Capitalism rewards each and every man to the extent of his
intelligence! But it can be easily shown that the Highest Man has always more to give to others than to recieve in return from them! And the people lesser than him have always more to recieve from him than to give him in return! Is that fair enough for you.

Everybody will be taken care of in that system with the high level
geniuses at the top.Nobody will be left out in the cold! It would be a state of
existence where man will exist for the sake of Enjoyment alone and
nothing else! Every endeavour of man will be in accordance with the
Laws of Reality and nothing else.You will not serve anyone else and you will not have to wait for anything on this earth.Go get it and nobody will stop you. In fact they will guide you how to get it!

Still have any fear of capitalism? The government will be your protecter.If viewed from the space it will literally look like 10 billion individuals dancing on the planet and the dancing never stops!

You will not do something just because you got the chance to
do it! You will exercise restraint in whatever that you do. You will distinguish between the right and the wrong and do only the right.
You will not do something just because your elders ask you to do so!
How do they know what is right and wrong?

In short,you will know what is Pain but will almost never get a
chance to experience it! Everyday will be a sunday on this earth!

Murugan, I enjoy your enthusiasm, but even in a capitalist society we all need to work, and work does require effort....so it won't all be a sunday, and we will know pain, as we make errors and suffer the consequences. Having said that, you are right that it will be a picnic compared to history....especially in India, I imagine, where so many have been essentially enslaved for centuries, I believe.

Under capitalism, we will still have a business cycle, as well...with painful corrections against a general trend of growth. I suspect we are not far away from a significant correction at this time, based on the high debt levels in the US and around the world. In the US over the last few years, it has taken 7 dollars in added debt to create one dollar of growth in our economy. In the 1950's-60s it was more like one or two dollars of added debt for each dollar of added growth. It seems like we are much closer to the end of this growth cycle than we are to its beginning. At this time, we have debt in the US equal to 3.5x GDP, whereas the previous record was 2.7x in 1929....gulp...

As this debt is worked down, there will be reduced consumption, and probably many bankruptcies as bad debt is written off. I wonder how our societies will respond to this economic contraction.....will we call for more government, or will we perhaps call for less government and a more strict adherence to capitalism?

In another issue for capitalism, we will probably always have Schumpeters 'creative destruction' in which new inventions create new industries and displace old industries. While this is great for our general progress, no doubt it will entail periodic pain for those that need to re-adjust their work methods. Probably we are seeing large 'creative destruction' at this time, with much production and service work shifting from the US to China and India...great in the long term, but no doubt a problem, short term, for those production workers in the US that need to change their way of making a living.

Steve

under capitalism you will choose the work you like and enjoy and so everyday will still be a sunday!
And in that system as always the mankind will
follow the example set by the Highest Man! And so
there will be no errors! And the errors will be corrected
without any pain or punishment!You will certainly experience pain when
you fall from the staircase that is!

And i don't think that america was ever a fully
capitalist nation.ASK AYN! It is at best a mixed economy.
So is india.

and socialism was not invented in india but in
europe. greece and the rest of the western world and
the america has known only the name of prometheus and have they acknowledged his name as yet!I
don't think so!
no wonder greece is only 12 million strong and is
still a developing nation! and look at the amount
of stress that the western nations and america has
taken in the past.i think they are free from stress
now! After doing some reality check.

india no matter what its errors has always held on to the one principle that men are not created equal
and cannot be treated as equals. india which has always been a densely populated nation has always
been stress-free as far as the majority[95 % or more] is concerned. REASON IT HAS BEEN THE ONLY NATION ON THIS EARTH WHICH HAS WORSHIPPED THE HIGHEST MAN [A LA ROARK AND GALT] AS THE GOD FOR THE LAST TEN AND FIVE THOUSAND YEARS!

And today if the world is on the Right track it is because
multiculturalism is vanishing!

Even ten years ago i noticed that the people of india lived as if india was the only nation which existed on this earth! america was doing the same and so was the rest of the world! paid a nice price for
it! THEY IGNORED MY LIKES AND THEY INTENDED TO GET AWAY WITH IT!

And it is not consumption but production which is the primary
requirement for Capitalism!
AND IN A FULLY CAPITALIST WORLD THERE WILL
BE NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES.
Schumpeter's creative destruction is simply
Edison's light bulb displacing the candle industry of
Procter and Gamble!

And the equivalent of the fantastic invention made
by Galt, what destruction would that bring to the
world.The whole world would be liberated once and
for all!

Murugan, have you read 'The Mysterious Valley', the childrens story which influenced Ayn as a child? I am curious if there really were such religious sects in India which were quite mystical and practiced human sacrifice?

Thx.

Steve

And the destructive forces of nature is no longer a
match for the procreation abilty of mankind!
There are on an average 3,50,000 people born
across the world everyday! After subtracting the
death rate some 2,00,000 people are added to the existing population everyday!And suddenly the whole world is together again and this time it is right!I saw in the news channels
that at least two long standing conflicts in two
particular nations have been resolved immediately!

Hello,
So that is the reason[the mysterious valley of india] why Ayn had so much misgivings about india and never bothered to look
into the story of Ram and Krishna!
She paid a huge price for it.She had depression
for the final 25 years of her life!
KRISHNA WOULD HAVE SPARED HER THAT DEPRESSION!

Murugan, if you would like to say that Krishna teaches the truth and is the same as Ayn Rand, or better than Ayn Rand....to me this would seem to be a real stretch. The only Krishna folks I know are the ones I saw in Boston Common when I was at school there...they were all dressed up in Indian Garb, generally shaved heads I believe, and making some music on Indian instruments... I am not sure if they were collecting money or handing out information. In any case, they did not strike me as the square-jawed, driven, production-oriented folks that Ayn Rand shows as her heroes. And Indian history does not seem to have similar figures such as Rand portrays....where are the inventions and industry from India, if Kris and Ram have laid the groundwork for a rational culture some thousands of years ago?

It appears to me that you are grasping at a few superficial similarities which you think exist between Kris and Ayn Rand, and are projecting these much further than warranted.

The same can be done with Christianity and Objectivism. For example, one might argue the following:

'The bible identifies, at many points, the conditional nature of life as the origin or our need for ethical concerns. One example is the 'Exodus' from Egypt which was led by Moses. Symbolically, the exodus from Egypt represents the need for each of us to escape from error and limitation if we are to achieve the goals that make life worthwhile. Nothing in life is assured to us, everything must be planned for and worked for if it is to come to pass in reality. "An exit is a way out, and, with trouble, the idea is to get out quickly. The book of Exodus deals with the getting out of limitation, which means the getting out of evil, because all evil is limitation of one kind or another. It shows us how to get out of our own limitation - our weakness, and fearfulness, and stupidity, and sin, and sickness and become the wonderful thing that God intended us to be. The Bible says that we have dominion over all things-and we have-but we can only have that dominion when we learn the laws of life and apply them. there is no dominion without it." (from Emmet fox, The Ten commandments, p17-18)

"The standard of value of the Objectivist Ethics - the standard by which one judges what is good or evil - is man's life, or: that which is required for mans survival qua man. Since reason is man's basic means of survival, that which is proper to the life of a rational being is the good; that which negates it is evil." (The Virtue of selfishness, Ayn Rand, p23)

Above is an example how one might argue that the bible teaches life as the standard of value.....but it stretches the point quite a bit, and the bible certainly does not teach the axioms, the nature of thought, or the virtues as Ayn taught them.....and yet folks have stretched and strained to create such an interpretation of religion, in order to make it more compatible with modern life.

Probably you can pull some similar thoughts from the literature about Kris....but if you look at the picture in total, you will not find objectivism taught by Kris, you will more likely find your superposition of objectivism on some isolated aspects of Kris, and then say that objectivism was anticipated by Kris. In any case, all this really does not matter.......all that matters is learning the truth and using it, and this is best done by studying the writings of Ayn Rand and applying them in ones life.

Steve

I never said that Krishna gave the full answer to the question what is life!It was the absence of the highest man in europe during the last ten thousand years which led to the complete collapse of philosophy in the 20th century[collectivism,altruism].In response to that an Ayn Rand was born in europe who gave the complete and right philosophy[reason,individualism,capitalism and rational egoism]There is balance in nature, you see!
He demonstrated the complete celebration of man 's life!It was not necessary for him[nor for pro and ram] to arrive at the full answer 5 thousand years ago!But he carried out the Atlas Shrugged act 5 thousand years ago and after he was gone
the mother nature finished his task completely by destroying the city built by him!A comet plunged into the Arabian sea on the western coast of India and the city of Dwarka was submerged by a massive tsunami.A meteorite or an asteroid hits the earth once in every 5 thousand years!Ask the scientists.The next one is coming within 100 years!The city of Atlantis built by Prometheus met with some similar fate - flooding of the city and its eventual submergence in the sea.[It seems the wife of Prometheus had the name of Asia!But it is obvious that she is not the highest woman.]Please visit http://www.pathguy.co...
I read in the newspapers recently that the city of Atlantis was found in the sea bed of Cyprus.Its dimensions matched the description given by Plato in his writings.And Ram had built a bridge across the Indian ocean connecting the south india with sri lanka to wage a war to rescue his wife from the King Ravan who had kidnapped her when he and his wife and his twin brother Laxman[a la francisco] were in the jungle.They had been sent
there in exile for 14 years by their own elders!The three had spent more than 12 peaceful years in the jungle and later they moved southwards where the kidnapping of sita by ravan took place.And madam sita was quite safe there in the kingdom of Sri Lanka whose king was Ravan.The elders of Ravan ensured that.And Ravan was an ideal[?] king who wanted Sita to willingly become his wife!But the elders could not convince Ravan to give her back to Ram.So Ram finally killed him and got back his wife.Ram's army consisted of men who were half men and half ape but he fought a tremendous war and won it against the powerful kingdom of Ravan.
The Nasa scientists[if they are not bluffing!] say that they have evidence to suggest that a bridge exists in the sea bed there!In any case,after Ram and Prometheus were gone there was an ice age ten thousand years ago and nothing of their legacy was left behind!
And remember that a city or a nation or the whole world is not built by a single individual!Was America built by a single individual?
And where is your Roark and Galt in America or the Western world?Ayn gave the full answer to the question what is life in Atlas Shrugged.And there is no work which is philosophically superior to Atlas Shrugged on this earth!But she had depression for the final 25 years of her life.May I ask why?Because philosophy is not an end in itself.Only man is an end in himself!
The krishna devotees do not know about prometheus.and after having seen the life of ram and krishna[the ultimate playboy!] it is not within their capacity to think of krishna as somebody who walks the pavements of america looking for a job!and in another version of kris[galt] where he is finally hunted down by the government because he is an enemy of the state!
And remember that in the past the character of the people depended upon their environment to a large extent!The Europe with its harsher climate made them more industrious because they had to constantly invent things to survive in those environment.On the other hand,india was always a land of plenty where nature supplied most of the man 's needs.and the tropical heat made the people a little lazier!
The life of Krishna requires a fairly wealthy and advanced state of existence which existed in india 5 K years ago.Why has she been slow in development in the recent past - the reason for that is very ancient!One of the them is the anti-krishna attitude of the elders in india.The Prophet's messenger have ruled india for at least 1000 years before the British came.and it was the British people who gave socialism to india!
The Krishna devotees think of krishna as someone who is born in a king's family.they think of him as a playboy,philosopher,warrior and the king and the protector of mankind!He had an indirect knowledge of all the structural and scientific works.And he built the Dwarka city[his kingdom] in the western coast of india.he plays flute and entertains the whole world including the flora and fauna and is always in a relaxed state!he dances with 16 thousands of women in the large open gardens.his dancing[the sky and the earth seemed to be dancing along with him] and his amorous acts filled the hearts of his elders and his people with joy and excitement!
He had a very pampered childhood with his foster parents.He spent his childhood days teasing and seducing thousands of maidens.
And where is kris today?Well the anti-kris[anti-enjoyment] attitude of the elders,teachers,education systems,philosophers,intellectuals,the government etc. across the globe in the last 200 years - did that leave any place for him on this earth!
What was krishna's philosophy?he started by killing evil people from a very young age! well the boy who held 16000 women in his arms - you may visit the following links -
http://www.krishna.co... [See the pictures of Krishna there in the Art section there.] and http://www.indianmyth... [meet the gods and goddessess like the Greek gods who are your high level geniuses]and see for yourself how much rationality kris has taught them.

Murugan, why was Ayn depressed for 25 years? I never knew her, so I don't know if she was depressed or not. I saw her speak once, in Boston, the last lecture she gave at Ford Hall Forum, she seemed well at that time, in command of herself and seemingly enjoying the lecture she gave.

To look for parallels to Atlas Shrugged in terms of lost cities of history, or destroyed cultures, seems a relatively superficial parallel. Ayns purpose, to some extent, in writing Atlas Shrugged was not to recommend a strike and the destruction of western culture as a plan of action, but to actually try and prevent such an outcome from happening, by teaching people ideas that are more appropriate for life....by learning these ideas and implementing them, hopefully we would not reach a point at which the only solution was a massive strike that would cripple society.

Her primary purpose in writing, though, was to create her own world, with characters and action that she could admire. She needed to create this world for herself because in large part it did not exist in the world around her. This fact may be key to whatever unhappiness she experienced....it is hard to be totally happy and satisfied when one feels that one cannot approve of the people and events which make up the world that one actually lives in.

What have you found in her novels that appeals to you most? What did you find most enjoyable, and has it made any difference in how you live your life?

Steve

continued from the previuos posting[message is too long] -

The boy who held 16000 women in his arms his philosophy was enjoyment and enjoyment alone!
He smoothered the lips of women with kisses and looked deep into their eyes.His eyes[which looked like blooming Lotus flowers] made them go into a trance like state!He was passionate in his love making but not lustful.His skin had a light blue complexion and his body looked as if he was specially made for the women!The final moments of release with him was exultant!
Later when he was past his prime years he insisted upon a war to help his boys[his friends] to win back their lost kingdom from a very powerful empire.he drove the chariot of Arjun in the battlefield but did not himself fight in the war.the war was won with a display of great individual abilities and also by telling some lies in the battlefield and by breaking some rules of the war![Galt says to dagny-'We do not owe any morality to those who hold us under a gun!]kings from all over the country took part in that battle and it was the war which literally wiped out the entire civilization that existed in india!all the men of ability were lost in that war.The war lasted for 18 days and some 1.8 million soldiers took part in that war.Krishna and his friends were literally the only survivors left!

And the question is not that Krishna was the same as Ayn Rand or better than her! Prometheus,Ram and Krishna are the first three births of the man of the highest mind- the real life Roark and Galt!You are not going to debate whether Roark was the same as Rand or better than her!In any case the story of Krishna
[Mahabharat] is too vast!There is no story on this earth which can compare with its vastness.
Hello Steve,
i started with ayn at the age of 17.but my mind was spinning out of control!in some ways it was she who led me to the name of krishna and then
ram and then prometheus all of them within a span of six months in the year 2001!She saved me and i saved her!
it was not within ayn's capacity to reach the name of krishna within her lifetime!Historical reasons for that.that job was left to me!and i here admire the majority of people because they always know it!only why don't they tell us!they would have spared so much trouble for all of
us!And the names of Prometheus,Ram,Sita and Krishna,Radha have they really been lost!their names have been immortalized!they are going to be here for forever.And so is the names of Ayn,Roark,Dominique,Galt and Dagny!